Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+ Va Tech Shooting

[bondiguy]

No doubt, guns are defiantly owned and used by citizens that shouldn't have access to them. I think we'd both agree that, as far as the U.S. is concerned, the horse is already out of the barn. It's gotten so out of hand, protecting yourself isn't just a good idea, it's almost a case of naivety if you choose not to. Anyone who thinks that they won't ever be a victim of a violent crime is either an unrealistic optimist or foolhardy. Not matter what your belief system or upbringing or religion: bad things happen to good people. That's a fact that I think is almost too obvious to state. It's not a negative outlook or a pessimistic one. It's just the way things are.  I think people ignore that fact to their own detriment. Being armed  isn't being paranoid, it's hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. And yes, it does suck that this is what it's come to. When I do a moving job, I literally have everything a family owns in my van. If I got robbed of my truck, my insurance would cover most of the monetary costs, but there'd be a family that lost everything. And people have been killed for a lot less that what I have in that van. What a depressing subject. But it is what it is.

The same planet but a different world

[Something_Creative]

using 9/11 as an argument for civilians having hand guns is just crazy, how did having a hand gun or not make any blind bit of difference? Only if Arms Civilians had been on the planes that day, would have saved 3,000 Americans!

can understand hunters and land owners etc, but a normal civilian has no need to have/carry a gun. Tell that to the Two Millons Americans that Save their live every year by Have/carry a gun! From Rapes, Killers, Gangs, Drugs Dealers, Racist, Terroist, etc...How many people in your country get stab, rob, killed, raped, etc... I know its higher than here in the States!

im really suprised by Skulls views?
Why for being a Realest?
Guns are just tools, in the right hands will save life, and in the wrong hands will take them.

More people die from cars, smoking, Aides, etc... than from Guns! Before we Ban guns, ban Tobacco, Ban Alcohol, etc...

Where did you get these stats and the other one about then gaving a higher violent crime rate than the US??

[bondiguy]

Where did you get these stats and the other one about then gaving a higher violent crime rate than the US??

The same place faeces exit his body!

[Something_Creative]

The same place faeces exit his body!

Must be

[ddd35]

the students were asking the news media to leave today so they begin the task to get back to normal , it should be our hope that they would indeed heed that and move out ...

[bondiguy]

Yeah, gun laws in the USA are just fine...

Child gets gun license

[SKULLZ0MBIE]

no comments

[bondiguy]

Yep, just the way it should be, God bless the good Old USA 

Well maybe one day you will get shot

[SKULLZ0MBIE]

no comments

[bondiguy]

You may have survived Cleveland. You may have escaped from New York. But, this is L.A., vato. And, you're about to find out that this fu**ing city can kill anybody!
Quote by Escape from LA

[SKULLZ0MBIE]

no comments

[Gnappster]

You may have survived Cleveland. You may have escaped from New York. But, this is L.A., vato. And, you're about to find out that this fu**ing city can kill anybody!
Quote by Escape from LA

I know what you're thinking: "Did he fire six shots, or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But, being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya punk?
Quote by Dirty Harry

http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html#Introduction

[closeup]

Yeah, gun laws in the USA are just fine...

Child gets gun license

Do you think alcohol should be banned in Australia if a minor is involved in a fatal accident? Or do you think that responsible adults should be allowed to own and consume alcohol even thou thousands die each year from cirrhosis of the liver, domestic violence due to alcohol abuse and fatal auto accidents due to driving under the influence.

Web Results 1 - 10 of about 1,010,000 for "alcohol related accidents australia"
There's over a million hits on Google using those words. Ban it, or accept it?

[Gnappster]

Do you think alcohol should be banned in Australia if a minor is involved in a fatal accident? Or do you think that responsible adults should be allowed to own and consume alcohol even thou thousands die each year from cirrhosis of the liver, domestic violence due to alcohol abuse and fatal auto accidents due to driving under the influence.

Web  Results 1 - 10 of about 1,010,000 for "alcohol related accidents australia"
There's over a million hits on Google using those words.  Ban it, or accept it?

maybe most of those hits are "alcohol related accidents" rarely occur in "austrialia.

but I think the point of the story is how the governing body who issues these things doesn't look closely enough at these things to think, "hey, should a 10 month old have a gun license?" regardless of what the law says.
accidents, shootings aside, if a 5 year old goes and buys a bottle of whiskey, there is a problem there, regardless if they were only buying it for their dad and not consuming it themselves.

but your points are taken too, unlike Skull's.

[SKULLZ0MBIE]

no comments

[Gnappster]

My hypocrisy goes only so far.
quote by Tombstone

"you're fuckin retarded"
-quote by gnappster

[ddd35]

"you're fuckin retarded"
-quote by gnappster

that one will go down in history

[closeup]

maybe most of those hits are "alcohol related accidents" rarely occur in "austrialia.

but I think the point of the story is how the governing body who issues these things doesn't look closely enough at these things to think, "hey, should a 10 month old have a gun license?" regardless of what the law says.
accidents, shootings aside, if a 5 year old goes and buys a bottle of whiskey, there is a problem there, regardless if they were only buying it for their dad and not consuming it themselves.

but your points are taken too, unlike Skull's. 

I can agree, but only so far. Where I have a problem is the phrase "regardless of what the law says". Say you just bought a new house, in a residential neighborhood. Two weeks after your closing, you get a new neighbor. He's just paid top dollar for his new home. But what he wants to do is raise pigs, 30 or 40 of them. Right next door. Naturally, you're not going to be too pleased with this new development. You think, "There's gotta be a law against this." Your neighbor's defense consists mostly of the refrain, "Regardless of the law." People want bacon, people want ham and pork chops. So, fuck it, I'm raising pigs. '" Your property value drops in half. But you have no defense because, "People love bacon, pigs have to live somewhere" Obviously, had you known of this was going to happen, you'd have never bought the property. My point being, one guys, "Regardless of the law", is another guys kick in the nut sack. The law is the only thing that let's you have ANY control of the future. And, as slight as that may be, it's really the only assurance a person can have that things are going to be dealt with in a fair manner. Maybe this should have gone in the rant thread but here it is anyway. I guess you could call me a "Libertarian" and for those of you who don't know what that entails, Google it.

[bondiguy]

http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html#Introduction

That would be helpful if he could read.

Do you think alcohol should be banned in Australia if a minor is involved in a fatal accident? Or do you think that responsible adults should be allowed to own and consume alcohol even thou thousands die each year from cirrhosis of the liver, domestic violence due to alcohol abuse and fatal auto accidents due to driving under the influence.

Web  Results 1 - 10 of about 1,010,000 for "alcohol related accidents australia"
There's over a million hits on Google using those words.  Ban it, or accept it?

Closeup I take your point. My point relates to the gun culture that has been bred over 100's of years in the states which leads to the acceptance of a 10 month old obtaining a gun license. It also helps to point out the lax, apathetic attitude the USA has toward gun control. If it is easy for this kid to obtain a license, basically anyone can slip through the cracks. What about a former mental patient obtaining a license and a legally obtained firearm?

I do think you are drawing a long bow between alcohol related fatalities and gun control. The fact is that drink driving is illegal. You get caught here in Australia, you get to visit the local jail, you lose your license, simple. Ban it? Well whilst underage drinking does occur there would be less than 1% of licensed outlets that would sell alcohol to minors because the fines they face are heavy!

I will say this though, at the very least I appreciate you understand the meaning of debate

"you're fuckin retarded"
-quote by gnappster

bwahahaha

[ddd35]

I wont debate , here the pig aurgument is valid I live in the rural midwest , farming community , the law says my neighbers can raise hogs as long as they stay 1/4 from my house , wel I now have 7500 hogs within a 1/4 mile of my house and hes getting ready to build and house 7000 more and theres nothing I can do , my 250,000 home is going to depreciate ,, and on days that the wind is from the east or the humidity is high we dont use our pool or hot tub cause it smells like shit outside and sure as hell dont leave during the day with your windows open on a warm day .. the point is they are protected by law , Im a farmer but I dont believe that I should be able to inflict undo stress on my neighbers as they do me ..


Do any of you know how many gun deaths there are in the US on any given yr ?

for comparison here there are on average 16000 . gun related deaths

a real point is In Illinois alone there are 115,000 deer killed by guns .. thats just in Illinois .. in comparison the gun deaths are pretty small .. that makes it no less critical I know but there are worse things that effect lives everyday ... Like these fucking fuel companys that are fucking us evryday we burn gas ..

[SKULLZ0MBIE]

no comments

[Gnappster]

I can agree, but only so far. Where I have a problem is the phrase "regardless of what the law says".  Say you just bought a new house, in a residential neighborhood. Two weeks after your closing, you get a new neighbor. He's just paid top dollar for his new home. But what he wants to do is raise pigs, 30 or 40 of them. Right next door. Naturally, you're not going to be too pleased with this new development. You think, "There's gotta be a law against this." Your neighbor's defense consists mostly of the refrain, "Regardless of the law."  People want bacon, people want ham and pork chops. So, fuck it, I'm raising pigs. '" Your property value drops in half. But you have no defense because, "People love bacon, pigs have to live somewhere" Obviously, had you known of this was going to happen, you'd have never bought the property. My point being, one guys, "Regardless of the law", is another guys kick in the nut sack. The law is the only thing that let's you have ANY control of the future. And, as slight as that may be, it's really the only assurance a person can have that things are going to be dealt with in a fair manner. Maybe this should have gone in the rant thread but here it is anyway. I guess you could call me a "Libertarian" and for those of you who don't know what that entails, Google it.

Good point, can't just make up laws to suit one's needs(unless you're a politician).
But it just seems like a passive attitude to take in such a case. Yes there was no law barring it, but maybe the people issuing them should have contacted the parent and asked if they really wanted a gun license for a baby. Maybe go to a superior and see if there is some loophole for them not to issue it etc. It just seems like an apathetic attitude to hand out a gun license to a one year old becasue there is no law against it. And that raises the questions, why the hell ISN'T there an age requirement. But that's another debate I suppose.
btw, I'm not familiar with US gun laws, but don't you need to take some type of safety course before you can buy a gun or have a gun license?

[ddd35]

Good point, can't just make up laws to suit one's needs(unless you're a politician).
But it just seems like a passive attitude to take in such a case. Yes there was no law barring it, but maybe the people issuing them should have contacted the parent and asked if they really wanted a gun license for a baby. Maybe go to a superior and see if there is some loophole for them not to issue it etc. It just seems like an apathetic attitude to hand out a gun license to a one year old becasue there is no law against it. And that raises the questions, why the hell ISN'T there an age requirement. But that's another debate I suppose.
btw, I'm not familiar with US gun laws, but don't you need to take some type of safety course before you can buy a gun or have a gun license?

yes at age 18 and below

[closeup]

Underage liquor sales are a real problem in Portland. Here's part of an article from the local paper:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alcohol sting sheds light on a source of the problem


Portland Press Herald (ME) July 27, 2004
Page A10


An undercover sting operation initiated by the Cumberland County Sheriff's Department has proven to be very worthwhile, not to mention disturbing.


The results of the operation showed that minors were able to purchase alcohol at liquor-selling stores in as often as 80 percent of the attempts that were made.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, obtaining a license or permit isn't the same as actually owning a weapon. Yeah, I'd have a real problem with minors carrying handguns. But, as an adult, it's your right to be able to protect your own life. And if your life is threatened, it's comforting to know that you've got the means to defend yourself. Obviously, anyone in their right mind hopes that deadly force will never be needed. It truly does suck that this is what the world has come to. But I'm more of a realist than an idealist. I don't have to like something to accept it. Now it would just be my luck to be the first guy shot by a one year old. Kinda like Maggie shooting Mr Burns.

[bondiguy]

Underage liquor sales are a real problem in Portland. Here's part of an article from the local paper:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alcohol sting sheds light on a source of the problem
Portland Press Herald (ME) July 27, 2004
Page A10


An undercover sting operation initiated by the Cumberland County Sheriff's Department has proven to be very worthwhile, not to mention disturbing.
The results of the operation showed that minors were able to purchase alcohol at liquor-selling stores in as often as 80 percent of the attempts that were made.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, obtaining a license or permit isn't the same as actually owning a weapon. Yeah, I'd have a real problem with minors carrying handguns. But, as an adult, it's your right to be able to protect your own life. And if your life is threatened, it's comforting to know that you've got the means to defend yourself. Obviously, anyone in their right mind hopes that deadly force will never be needed. It truly does suck that this is what the world has come to. But I'm more of a realist than an idealist. I don't have to like something to accept it. Now it would just be my luck to be the first guy shot by a one year old. Kinda like Maggie shooting Mr Burns.

When you say underage sales of alcohol are bad in Portland, are the kids that are buying liquor 10 months old or 20 years old? IN the states it would seem you can own a gun license at 10 months, own a gun at 14 years, but fuck don't have a beer until you're 21 son!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I honestly feel sorry for people who live in a country where carrying a gun offers peace of mind that one day it will save your life. Thank god I live in Australia. Shot by a one year old, it would be some sort of poetic comedy right? haha. I put this article up more to highlight the apathy by whatever association hands out these licenses and the apathy shown by the general community and their views on guns in society

[ddd35]

When you say underage sales of alcohol are bad in Portland, are the kids that are buying liquor 10 months old or 20 years old? IN the states it would seem you can own a gun license at 10 months, own a gun at 14 years, but fuck don't have a beer until you're 21 son!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I honestly feel sorry for people who live in a country where carrying a gun offers peace of mind that one day it will save your life. Thank god I live in Australia. Shot by a one year old, it would be some sort of poetic comedy right? haha. I put this article up more to highlight the apathy by whatever association hands out these licenses and the apathy shown by the general community and their views on guns in society

to each there own , thats what makes the world go around !!!

the only thing currently you have to worry about in your country is dying for lack of water , it seems to be a fact that there is becoming a major problem .. I guess it could be from living with B,O due to lack of being able to bath due to water shortage .. either by guns or other means were all going to leave this earth in one way or another ..it doenst much matter how or when ..

This post has been edited by ddd35: May 19 2007, 10:03 AM

[bondiguy]

to each there  own , thats what makes the world go around  !!!

the only thing currently you have to worry about in your country is  dying for lack of water  , it seems to be a fact  that there is becoming a major  problem  ..  I guess it could be  from living with B,O  due to lack of being able to bath due to  water shortage  ..  either by guns  or other means were all going to leave this earth in one way or another  ..it doenst much matter   how or when  ..

as usual Americans only listen to the part of the news they wish to. Yes their are drought problems in my country but here is a free tip for you, I live in the City. Believe it or not they exist outside the USA. I am right on the coast where rainfall is plentiful! It is in the country where they need the water.

Moron

[ddd35]

as usual Americans only listen to the part of the news they wish to. Yes their are drought problems in my country but here is a free tip for you, I live in the City. Believe it or not they exist outside the USA. I am right on the coast where rainfall is plentiful! It is in the country where they need the water.

Moron

according to the news global warming is effecting it all , you yourself have quoted global warming in a another thread .. dont take it personal .. geez

[bondiguy]

according to the news  global warming is effecting    it all  , you yourself have quoted global warming  in a another thread  .. dont take it personal  .. geez

Please tell me what global warming has to do with rainfall? It still rains despite the fact average temps might by slightly higher.

I am not taking anything personal, I am just pointing out idiocy. Do I have baths? No I shower. Redneck

[ddd35]

Please tell me what global warming has to do with rainfall? It still rains despite the fact average temps might by slightly higher.

I am not taking anything personal, I am just pointing out idiocy. Do I have baths? No I shower. Redneck

LOl gotta love it

global warming is just that , its the effect of warming the oceans which in turns causes lack of rainfall and climate changes , I have some great articles I will place here for you later so you can educate yourself , i do study the drought In your fair country cause it directly effects the currnet patterns and future patterns that can effect the USA which causes stress to my life blood , my crops .. If the water supply is short in your fair country then Im sure there is rationing of water as several articles reflect , and weather you bath or shower they both take water .. It may rain but if the temperatures are higher then water (rain) will not stay around long and be able to be used or recharge the resevours were your water supplys come from . ITs called evaporation ..

This post has been edited by ddd35: May 21 2007, 09:10 AM