[ Outline ] · Standard · Linear+ So I Go To My Psych Class Today Since Missing Last

[diane26]

week the class is on Tuesdays and Thursday nights and I find out my teacher is MISSING.

The last time he was seen was on the last day of March.... Since I missed last week I had no idea but apparently there was no class cause he has just dissapered. this is like the third OC teacher to go missing in the past year.

THey just posted it on the News site today.


Here is the link

http://kitsapsun.com/bsun/local/article/0,...4613530,00.html


I am in shock I have never known anyone on a personal level that has gone missing.

[diane26]

Issac, to say it is selfish depends on what side of the fence you are on. There will always be the other side.

The hermit man wasn't selfish cause he had no one else to love him??? How sad is that??

Anyway let's say it is JUST you and your wife. Lets say she is at a point in her life she wants it to be done, for whatever reason you don't understand and your won't understand cause it is not your brain, but you feel she is being selfish cause she isn't thinking about you and your feelings and how it will effect you. notice all the you's??? Why is it YOU are not being selfish in wanting her to live a live she is not wanting to live??


I mean to look at things like that we can find something selfish in about every thing we do cause as long as you are putting yourself and your feelings first you are being selfish.

Suicide will never make sense, trying to get it to make sense will only make it more confusing. But until you have walked a mile in the shoes of a person that is at that point to say who they are and what they are all about is bullshit to say the least.

A person who has OVERCOME severe mental trauma and battled that war will come close to understanding but even there case would be different since we are all different. But I personaly feel it is selfish to trash someone who has commited suicide cause it hurt you and to not stop and consider what they are going through. Maybe if more people cared about others feelings and less about themselves some wouldn't feel as though life isn't worth living.

[Isaac_Putin]

Anyway let's say it is JUST you and your wife. Lets say she is at a point in her life she wants it to be done, for whatever reason you don't understand and your won't understand cause it is not your brain, but you feel she is being selfish cause she isn't thinking about you and your feelings and how it will effect you. notice all the you's??? Why is it YOU are not being selfish in wanting her to live a live she is not wanting to live??

Diane, to be realistic, it would be helpful for you to explain a scenario where someone "is at that point in her life that she wants it to be done". For example, what? Just because it isn't my brain doesn't mean that I am wrong and they are right. That kind of logic could be used to rationalize virtually any act, good or bad.

And once again, that logic could be used to also justify the suicide of someone who left behind children who could not fend for themselves. Could it not? A single mother, living alone, commits suicide. Her toddler child then starves to death. Wasn't that suicide a selfish act? It resulted in the death of someone else. If it's not selfish, just let me know. But for the same reason that that mother should pull herself together for the sake of her child, she could also pull herself together for the sake of friends and relatives who would be emotionally devastated by her suicide.

Suicide will never make sense, trying to get it to make sense will only make it more confusing.  But until you have walked a mile in the shoes of a person that is at that point to say who they are and what they are all about is bullshit to say the least.

A person who has OVERCOME severe mental trauma and battled that war will come close to understanding but even there case would be different since we are all different. But I personaly feel it is selfish to trash someone who has commited suicide cause it hurt you and to not stop and consider what they are going through. Maybe if more people cared about others feelings and less about themselves some wouldn't feel as though life isn't worth living.

Why does making an assessment of someone's activities, when you haven't walked in their shoes, "bullshit to say the least"? You might as well absolve yourself from all assessments of people who you haven't had the same life experiences as. For example, a person who robs and kills the mother of three children may have had a tough life. Can we judge him or incarcerate him because we haven't walked in his shoes? Most people would say we could.

[diane26]

Diane, to be realistic, it would be helpful for you to explain a scenario where someone "is at that point in her life that she wants it to be done".  For example, what?  Just because it isn't my brain doesn't mean that I am wrong and they are right.  That kind of logic could be used to rationalize virtually any act, good or bad.

And once again, that logic could be used to also justify the suicide of someone who left behind children who could not fend for themselves.  Could it not?  A single mother, living alone, commits suicide.  Her toddler child then starves to death.  Wasn't that suicide a selfish act?  It resulted in the death of someone else.  If it's not selfish, just let me know.  But for the same reason that that mother should pull herself together for the sake of her child, she could also pull herself together for the sake of friends and relatives who would be emotionally devastated by her suicide.
Why does making an assessment of someone's activities, when you haven't walked in their shoes, "bullshit to say the least"?  You might as well absolve yourself from all assessments of people who you haven't had the same life experiences as.  For example, a person who robs and kills the mother of three children may have had a tough life.  Can we judge him or incarcerate him because we haven't walked in his shoes?   Most people would say we could.

Issac in that situation of the mother I would say what is the most selfish is that she did not find her child adequate care before killing herself, it is sad to me the child will grow up without there mom it's sad that the child will most likely blame themselves. BUT I am not going to judge the mom when I have no idea the kind of pain she felt inside.

Mental illness is not a black and white issue and it appears to me that you are making it that, it wont be it never will be. I was a single mom and I did take 20 something odd vicodin to kill myself, my actions at the time and how I felt were anything but selfish, if anything I was being selfless or at least with a severe mental illness that is what you feel inside.

I have overcome a lot since that time and my mental illness was not of any fault of my own. It's what happens when severe sexual, physical and emotional abuse happens to kids, allthough I am mentally 100times better now than I ever was than can guarntee you if I lost all my kids tomorrow I would kill myself. My children and my love for them are what now keeps me alive and going and if I lost all of them I would not want to live.

Imagine loosing your wife and kids, I know that they are the most important part of your life, that pain you feel inside everyday you loose any sense of rationality and logic and sorry but at the time you aren't thinking about how it might affect your sister or brothr or aunt, you are thinking about how all this pain inside is unbearable and you just want it to stop just want it to go away for a little bit not no matter what it takes.

I am glad my life was saved and if I could see than what I do now I would have never attempted it, lord knows at 14 I tried very hard to kill myself to stop the abuse with no luck, and everything did work out in the end but you don't see that when you are mentally not there.

You say you can understand if someone is terminal well mental illness can very much feel like a terminal cancer that you are dying from.

To me it is selfish for you to sit here not knowing what it is like to be in that much pain and make the issue black and white, I say not knowing cause you have said yourself before when we have talked you have never had to go through this or that and had a good life.

[Isaac_Putin]

Issac in that situation of the mother I would say what is the most selfish is that she did not find her child adequate care before killing herself, it is sad to me the child will grow up without there mom it's sad that the child will most likely blame themselves. BUT I am not going to judge the mom when I have no idea the kind of pain she felt inside.

Mental illness is not a black and white issue and it appears to me that you are making it that, it wont be it never will be. I was a single mom and I did take 20 something odd vicodin to kill myself, my actions at the time and how I felt were anything but selfish, if anything I was being selfless or at least with a severe mental illness that is what you feel inside.

I have overcome a lot since that time and my mental illness was not of any fault of my own. It's what happens when severe sexual, physical and emotional abuse happens to kids, allthough I am mentally 100times better now than I ever was than can guarntee you if I lost all my kids tomorrow I would kill myself. My children and my love for them are what now keeps me alive and going and if I lost all of them I would not want to live.

Imagine loosing your wife and kids, I know that they are the most important part of your life, that pain you feel inside everyday you loose any sense of rationality and logic and sorry but at the time you aren't thinking about how it might affect your sister or brothr or aunt, you are thinking about how all this pain inside is unbearable and you just want it to stop just want it to go away for a little bit not no matter what it takes.

I am glad my life was saved and if I could see than what I do now I would have never attempted it, lord knows at 14 I tried very hard to kill myself to stop the abuse with no luck, and everything did work out in the end but you don't see that when you are mentally not there.

You say you can understand if someone is terminal well mental illness can very much feel like a terminal cancer that you are dying from.

To me it is selfish for you to sit here not knowing what it is like to be in that much pain and make the issue black and white, I say not knowing cause you have said yourself before when we have talked you have never had to go through this or that and had a good life.

If you remember, I didn't start the discussion by saying that I personally felt this way in all instances. I like to look at things from different angles and sometimes I debate something from the other side even if I don't hold a strong opinion.

I honestly don't know if a person who has viewed the inclination toward suicide from person experience can argue this dispassionately or in a disinterested manner. But I'm going from the assumption you can.

If someone is suicidal, do you think they would be rational enough to try to find someone to take care of their children? It seems kind of unlikely to me. And what is the suicidal person going to tell the "prospective" parent the reason for giving the kids away?

If I lost my wife and kids, I doubt I would feel suicidal. In fact, I am inclined to feel obligated to do something to honor them, not immolate myself. I'd probably become a priest.

I still don't see the mental illness/terminal illness comparison. Has anybody ever died directly from depression/anxiety/bipolar disorder? I can't think of any cases. If the person honestly felt like they were dying from it, they probably wouldn't need to try to commit suicide because they believe they would die soon anyway, wouldn't they?

But once again, I don't feel like I understand the circumstances you feel like it would be a good idea or unselfish to commit suicide. By that I mean, what are your limits? Like, would it be okay if someone committed suicide if they had an otherwise great life, but got an F on a test? Or their boyfriend dumped them? Is it ever okay for a 12-year-old to commit suicide? Where do you draw the line? Is there any point, ever, in intervening?

From my standpoint, I said someone with a terminal, debilitating illness (Lou Gehrig's disease, late-stage cancer). I also said a hermit committing suicide would not be selfish, if no one cared about him. I admit it would be sad that no one cared about him, but if he doesn't impact anybody emotionally, physically, etc., then he hasn't commmitted an act in consideration of himself, and to the detriment of someone else.

[diane26]

If you remember, I didn't start the discussion by saying that I personally felt this way in all instances.  I like to look at things from different angles and sometimes I debate something from the other side even if I don't hold a strong opinion.

I honestly don't know if a person who has viewed the inclination toward suicide from person experience can argue this dispassionately or in a disinterested manner.  But I'm going from the assumption you can.

If someone is suicidal, do you think they would be rational enough to try to find someone to take care of their children?  It seems kind of unlikely to me.  And what is the suicidal person going to tell the "prospective" parent the reason for giving the kids away?

If I lost my wife and kids, I doubt I would feel suicidal.  In fact, I am inclined to feel obligated to do something to honor them, not immolate myself.  I'd probably become a priest.

I still don't see the mental illness/terminal illness comparison.  Has anybody ever died directly from depression/anxiety/bipolar disorder?  I can't think of any cases.  If the person honestly felt like they were dying from it, they probably wouldn't need to try to commit suicide because they believe they would die soon anyway, wouldn't they?

But once again, I don't feel like I understand the circumstances you feel like it would be a good idea or unselfish to commit suicide.  By that I mean, what are your limits?  Like, would it be okay if someone committed suicide if they had an otherwise great life, but got an F on a test?  Or their boyfriend dumped them?  Is it ever okay for a 12-year-old to commit suicide?  Where do you draw the line?  Is there any point, ever, in intervening?

From my standpoint, I said someone with a terminal, debilitating illness (Lou Gehrig's disease, late-stage cancer).  I also said a hermit committing suicide would not be selfish, if no one cared about him.  I admit it would be sad that no one cared about him, but if he doesn't impact anybody emotionally, physically, etc., then he hasn't commmitted an act in consideration of himself, and to the detriment of someone else.

Yes people have died from mental illness its called SUICIDE or Murder by suicide. It is directly related from having that mental illness, Besides Religion I don't think I have ever heard of a mentally sane person with a strong emotional balance commiting suicide.


and I have never ONCE said it was a good idea to commit suicide, I also can debate from both sides what I am trying to do is show what it is like on the "other side" since I have first hand knowledge of what it is like to feel at that point. Also yes they could at least try to take measures to make sure there child was cared for, simply asking someone to watch the child would have ensured the child would not have starved to death in the home with this dead body.